[k317x]

We went far off topic in another thread & started talking about the politics of guns. In the USA it's a fairly simple equation: our citizens have been collecting guns since our revolution in the late 1700's. Many of the quality guns made in the 20th century are relatively easy to maintain and kept in good condition by their owners. This is particularly true for handguns .38 caliber and above, all hunting rifles and all military grade weapons.

To put it simply, we are swimming in guns in the USA. Taking guns away from criminals here is an almost insurmountable task. Disarming law-abiding citizens wouldn't be any easier, and would be particularly difficult in the western US, because for much of our history those guns were necessary for personal defense as well as hunting for food.

My personal opinion: I lived in southern California much of my life. Very few law-abiding people there carry weapons. Drive-by shootings, robberies, and open gang warfare is common, particularly in LA. I moved to western Colorado where almost every family had a large collection of weapons and a great many people carry weapons on a daily basis. There was no street crime to speak of and I never felt so safe. More recently I moved to Nevada where guns are just as common as they were in western Colorado. There is more street crime, due to gambling and other vices, but I still feel much safer here than I did in California.

PS I don't own any guns.

[cyberdexter]

Well, feel free to merge that other topic to this one. Forking one of my GAW replies with the last fork created a mess. It merged my 7h old post back to the GAW discussion as latest post.

Anyway, I lived in places where I also owned guns and either had one in my car or on me. Now I live in a place where I don't need a gun. However, depending on where I live I would acquire one again for self-protection if I would feel the need for it.

There is a lot of pro and contra to gun ownership.

[DumbRedneck]

If you take guns away from the law abiding then the criminals WILL rule, it not like they care about laws. I grew up in TX, with 2 cops for the entire COUNTY (100mi north to south 50mi wide). You took care of yourself or where never seen again.

People forget a gun is an inanimate object, and requires human intervention to do anything.

PS. I carry daily, have several firearms, and served in the .Mil for 17 years.

[lothendriel]

and not to mention that a criminal is a criminal and if a criminal wants a gun they will get a gun. ... or make one i.e. zip guns

[MadMacs]

Indianapolis has had a rough year for gun violence so far. I think 80% of the victims had previous records, some for violent crimes. It's all in one area of the city where gang violence is prevalent.

[k317x]

Well, feel free to merge that other topic to this one.

I'll leave it as is, I was glad to see you did it, was a bit leery of screwing something up.

[BoB]

This is an interesting thread to read, because me and my girlfriend discuss this frequently.

Well...frequently...we've discussed it. More than once.

Personally, I'm of the opinion that it shouldn't just be criminals and the state tat are allowed to arm themselves, as that leaves citizens at a distinct disadvantage. There are fair arguments against people being allowed to carry firearms, especially here in the UK, that I have a hard time arguing against, including the fact that there are so many half wits out there that it would indeed be dangerous.

However, during the course of the discussions with my better half she felt particularly aggrieved (remember, she's German), when I pointed out that Hitler believed the citizenry should be disarmed, as did Pol Pot, Stalin etc etc, yet the peace loving hippy Ghandi firmly believed that one of the most destructive things the British ever did to the people of India was to disarm them and believed that it should be the right of all people to carry weapons to defend themselves.

As @DumbRedneck (I think) pointed out - criminals don't care about laws that restrict access to weapons, so it's arguably irresponsible, in your duty towards your families and loved ones, not to be armed.

It's such a long complicated topic and I love discussing it, especially since my mind isn't made up firmly one way or the other, albeit leaning slightly towards pro gun

[lothendriel]

and the state tat are allowed to arm themselves

This is another reason some U.S. citizens arm themselves. Protection against the state. Any government, and I don't care how democratic they say they are, can turn on its people at any point.

[quigley]

This is another reason some U.S. citizens arm themselves. Protection against the state. Any government, and I don't care how democratic they say they are, can turn on its people at any point.

According to several of our founding fathers, this is one of the reasons we have the second amendment.

I don't personally enjoy the idea of armed rebellion. The last time it happened in the US, almost as many Americans died as in all of our other wars combined. It would be great if that never had to happen again.

However, I do find that my behavior tends to improve in the presence of armed individuals. I like to think that the same applies to our elected officials - that an armed populace acts as a subtle reminder of whom they're supposed to be serving.

[DumbRedneck]

Bear in mind that opinions will differ on situation, I have stats I could put on here that can show more people die from X and Y, but in the end it is all perception. Remember the media only runs what will sell, and that is "sensational" and "shocking".

I was practically born with a gun in my hand, drilled ceaselessly in its proper use, dangers and ethics. I consider it to be everyone’s birthright to have the tools to defend oneself and family, others don't, and thats ok. Just remember if you berate me, curse me, or otherwise belittle me and I see something happening to you that I could stop, I will let Natural Selection run its course.

[k317x]

I was practically born with a gun in my hand, drilled ceaselessly in its proper use, dangers and ethics.

I never had that training, plus I am a bit of a space cadet at times. That's the only reason I don't keep a gun around any more, I'm just not focused enough to give the strict attention that carrying a loaded gun requires.

[TheBeardedMann]

I don't personally enjoy the idea of armed rebellion. The last time it happened in the US, almost as many Americans died as in all of our other wars combined. It would be great if that never had to happen again.

It won't. Most American's DGAS about anything anymore. They'd be happy being given next to nothing for doing nothing than having to work for something more. Maybe I'm bitter today.

[lothendriel]

I think most Americans, and I'm one so I know, have had their cerebrums fully washed and their bodies fattened. Propaganda has made us mentally dull and our food has made us sluggish and lazy. Most people I talk to when I mention politics and how our government is secretly giving us the root in the bum say "Oh well, nothing we can do about it."

I don't think people DGAS. I think they feel powerless and have given up.

[TheBeardedMann]

Yeah, I understand what you are saying. One major thing people do not realize is that voting in the Presidential election is just above meaningless. You have WAY more influence in local elections and can actually see your vote count.

[prestonjolly]

This point is evident at every polling place on a non-presidential election. Crazy (good) things might happen if people paid attention to school board elections for a few years.